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20131202
20131210
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wanted to negotiate with him and then on the anc side there were extreme blacks who wanted can carry on the armed struggle and moderate blacks. his party was driven with factions as well and it was only his own, what i think was the difference between the way south africa went and the way other countries went was his own personal leadership skills. jon: yeah and amazing that he developed those skills in the way he did because most politicians kind of learn a little bit at time on the job, you know, from dinners to elections to higher and higher offices. he spent much of his adult life in prison and yet when emerged from prison he was not a bitter, vengeful man. what can you tell us about his thoughts on that? >> right. he spent years, 23 hours out of 24, staring at a blank wall. what kind of training does that give you? he was 71 when he came out of prison. most people, that, spending that long in prison would probably want to go and retire. so, and i think, perhaps one of the things that he learned at that time when he had all those hours to think was that he managed, even though he
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